>> welcome to a special saturday edition of "the five". [ cheers and applause ] >> usa! usa! usa! >> it's a day of relief for the people of watertown, the people of boston and the rest of the nation as the two suspects in monday's bombing have either been captured or killed. the entire country killed the commonwealth after suspect number 2, dzhokhar tsarnaev, was apprehended and what a sight it was when residents poured out of

their homes to applaud law enforcement. suspect number 1, tamerlan tsarnaev, killed earlier in the day after a wild shootout. we've got jam packed hour today. adam housley is outside beth israel hospital where suspect number 2 is under guard. catherine herridge is following the investigation. here in studio is america's mayor, mayor rudy guiliani. first let's go to adam in boston. bring us up to date on the very latest. >> yes. we're hearing from the f.b.i. there may be a statement coming out at some point in the next couple of minutes. we haven't heard from them since last night. we heard about the suspect brought here in certificates condition. i'll step away. you can see the police presence is here at the hospital in boston. it's been here all night. every exit and entrance is covered. the floor where the suspect number 2 dzhokhar tsarnaev is located has police presence as well, as you might imagine outside his room and on the hospital floor. anybody going in, coming out of this hospital has to have their bag checked, as well as their

i.d we also have the picture from the ambulance. you can see the condition he was brought in. we've been told there were a number of injuries. at least two gun gunshot wounds. one into the head and neck area, the another likely to the leg area. he was found inside a boat and we have some great heat seeking images that have come in from the helicopter above, the one that took the heat seeking picture that let authorities know that he was absolutely in the boat. you might remember the homeowner found the blood, saw what he thought was a body inside his boat. he got under the tarp, that winterized tarp they wrap the boats here with. that helicopter went above and took pictures. you can see him, the body lying there inside the boat which helped authorities indeed secure the fact that he was there. again, we're told he is serious, but stable condition. charges may be filed here at the hospital. we know investigators -- invest

not been told if questions have been asked. but the big news right now is that we are expecting some sort of statement from the f.b.i. momentarily. as soon as we receive that, we'll come straight to you with it. >> thank you. we will get back to you as soon as you hear that. now let's go to catherine herridge for the very latest on the investigation. she's our correspondent in washington. >> fox news is told investigators are exploring potential links between the older brother and extremeist group based on the older brother's travel to russia in the first half of 2012. fox news is told among the videos deleted from his youtube terrorist play list were a linke umbrella of the group. investigators are looking for potential ties, including e-mail traffic, posting of web videos, and whether there was any person to person direct contact as well. in 2011 they were designated a terrorist organization by the u.s. state department and

received a similar designation from the u.n.'s al-qaeda and taliban sanctions committee. we have a quote here from ambassador daniel benjamin and it reads, the attacks perpetrated by the group illustrate the global nature of the terrorist problem we face today and we stand in solidarity with the russian people in our condemnation of these deplorable terrorist acts. the revelation that the u.s. was asked by the russian government two years ago to investigate the older brother for potential extremist ties and nothing was found is causing unease at the bureau, according to a member of the house intelligence committee. >> there are a lot of palpitation's going on within the f.b.i. about what did they see when they looked at this? what if anything, did they miss? that will be heavily scrutinize ed. >> we were also told today that this is just one of many groups that they're looking at at this time and it's also one that hasn't gotten a lot of attention in the past. >> thank you very much.

great reporting. we're very honored today it have new york's former mayor, rudy guiliani, with us. thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> we all have a lot of questions for you. let's bring it around the table. >> welcome, mr. mayor. >> thank you. >> i want to ask you, a lot of people are wondering what's going to happen to this guy and how should he be tried? a lot of people may not know that you're a former u.s. attorney. you tried a number of high profile cases. how would you try this -- i did mr. mayor, ask a form prosecutor how they would try it. simpson, who worked for george w. bush said he would seek the death penalty. capital murder, national support for terror resulting in death. how would you approach it? >> that's obviously the way you would do it if did you it as a federal civil prosecution. there is the option of doing it as enemy combatant, military court. i know john mccain, lindsey graham, couple of others are pushing for that. you need a little more evidence to know whether you can do that. you really have to know, did he

become part of the terrorist war against the united states? these e-mails and texts that they're discovering kind of make a pretty good case that he was part of a group that's at war against the united states. if you can make that case, then you could try him in a military court. you could try him in guantanamo bay and not have the spectacle of this trial having to take place in boston or some other place where they would change venue. >> are you sure about military court? as i understand, it was for noncitizens and for foreign nationals. >> if a citizen becomes part of the war effort against the united states -- let's take an example like this. let's take the second world war. let's say an american citizen went to germany and joined the nazi army and invaded the united states, we could try that person in a military court. now, the nature of this war is so ambiguous, you're going to get a lot of arguments as to whether or not that's a clear analogy. so it's an option, but it's a

difficult option. >> let me ask you a question. these guys came up with these two bombs that they dropped on the marathon route. they also had them in their car when they were being chased by the police and threw them out. that's an awful lot of weapons. the question remains, i guess, do they have help from people here? did they test these things out somewhere? your instinct tell you there are other people involved and are still in the united states and not apprehended? >> my instincts tell me that people helped them with certain aspects of this. very hard to believe they could have pulled it off without help. the point you make, it must have been tested. in fact, there is some evidence of people in the area that heard sounds weeks before. this could be who knows what or it could be they were testing it out. very unlikely that the first time they detonated those two devices was right there. very unlikely they hadn't tested it before. very unlikely that they'd have been able to pull that off without a little help. could do it, but i would say the

f.b.i. is much better off going on the hypothesis that there are other people involved. let's go find those people. the fact that he we want to russia, sounds like he got some help from there. who is it there? what chechen group is it? are they connected to al-qaeda? aren't they connected to al-qaeda? those are all questions that have to be answered. the way you try a citizen in a military court is you basically say that he has given up his citizenship by joining the enemy army. he's no longer a citizen of the united states. >> that's the argument they made in the drone attack. the legalization if you're an american and overseas and participating -- >> the obama administration has used this legal argument to justify their drone attacks. it's not unfamiliar to them. >> about a year ago or so, the nypd came under fire for some listening in this -- using surveillance techniques on certain groups. >> in new jersey.

>> in new jersey. >> right. >> there was a thing going back and forth between new york, new jersey, whether they were allowed to do this or not. with all this going on, aren't we making the case for more of that rather than less of that? >> yeah, we have to do more of it. it's very uncomfortable. it's very -- none of us want to give up any of our privacy, understandable. the reality is this is how you stop them. this is the only way you have to stop them. that is getting the information in advance. they're doing everything they can to hide what they're doing. law enforcement, intelligence agencies, they have to be able to do everything they can to intrude into them to find out what they're doing. >> mayor, as far as i can tell, we knew about nidal malik hasan. we knew about the guy who shot up the recruitment station. now the third example where somebody has been investigated and the ball dropped. maybe the kid had a unusual relationship with his brother.

it's absolutely insidious. i want to make a point here that -- >> going to one of the best schools in boston. >> he had every afforded luxury as somebody coming to the united states. my point is, is it right to be giving this much attention to these scum bags because it actually energizes other losers who see how easy it is to paralyze a city? we sit there and keep showing these pictures. shouldn't we treat them like the dirt bags they are ask stop showing them? >> we should put equal emphasis to find out about them in advance. i'm not playing monday morning quarterback. any one of these attacks, i remember september 11, three, four days after september 11, you could pull out as dana will remember, you could pull out memos where if i had thought about t i could have predicted september 11. that's hindsight. you're probably going to be able to pull out memos that should predict us. that should lead us not to criticize those who didn't do

it, but being more aggressive in the future. >> the preoccupation with these psycho logical root causes as opposed to the actual root causes. >> we don't pay attention to what psychology is telling us, i think major hasan was a worst case. >> right. >> he was how do you blow that? he was basically telling you, i want to attack and we were promoting him in the military. >> exactly. >> we knew that before and blew it after by not calling that a terrorist act. >> yeah. >> incomprehensible. the man was planning to attack in order to further jihaddist causes. he was communicating to get help. to make it easy, when he's shooting the people, he's yelling out allah akbar. i got to figure out motivation? he just gave me his motivation. >> can i just say this, they want me to get this in. you want to pull the full screen of of senator mccain and lindsey graham's comment. is that what you want to do? anyway, so these gentlemen have

said that he doesn't -- he shouldn't be mirandaized right away. i know you agree with them. >> i think the miranda issue is an easier issue. he doesn't have to be mar lindaized for a lot of reason. first of all, they have enough evidence to convict him without getting a confession from him. all miranda gets you is a confession you can use in court. you can use that information for everything else. remember, he confessed already to the guy they kidnapped. the guy he kidnapped says, these two guys told us, we did the bombing. they got great witness and they got a great confession. maybe even better than a law enforcement confession where you can claim it was forced out of you. they gave a upon takenious confession -- spontaneous confession. >> bob wants to get in here. so then why did they need to make that statement? i'm trying to figure out why they made that statement? >> i don't know exactly why they made it. maybe because they got so much

criticism -- remember the christmas morning bomber that they mirandaized right away, lost the opportunity to get information from him? so i think maybe they were playing defense. >> let me ask you a question, mayor. they closed down the city of boston, all of it, they closed down businesses, universities. granted, this was a horrendous attack, but even after 9-11, you didn't close this city down. i'm wondering whether they went overboard and then when they said okay, you can go out and stretch your legs, and then they find the guy is in the backyard of somebody in watertown. why shut down an entire city? >> bob, i think they could have made that call either way. i'm not sure if i was in their situation i wouldn't have made the same call. here you have a shootout in the middle of the night. you have got a guy on the loose. you have no idea where you'll find him. you could find him in the middle of boston commons or anywhere. you know when you find him there is president-elect obama going to be a massive shootout and you don't want to see ten kids get killed on the street in the middle of that shootout. was in an excess of caution?

yes. can understand why they did it? yes. i also think there was another law enforcement purpose to it. by shutting boston down, they shut off from them a lot of ways to escape. couldn't use the subways. couldn't use the buses. couldn't use the amtrak. couldn't use this or that. there was ohm one thing he could use, a car. so now you've kind of circled him pretty well. i think that's another reason. >> better to be safe than sorry. >> we are running out of time. he has a -- dana has a question. >> we're going to keep you for one more block. >> okay. >> one of the things you were talking about in the green room is that because law enforcement performed so ably in these situations that americans, as citizens, you don't have to have this as your top worry, that you can let law enforcement worry about it. >> this is a very difficult message and i think both president bush and president obama have actually struck a good tone on this. but i'm not sure people listened to them. the fact is, the government should be very worried about terrorists. the government should be

compulsive about terrorism and the rest of us shouldn't worry about it too much. that doesn't mean if we see something we shouldn't turn it in. but we shouldn't go stop our lives. we are all going to die. and we're probably going to die of something else other than terrorism. >> we got to jump in. we're coming up against a hard break. when we come back, how is the white house handling the first terror bombing on american soil since 9-11? we'll talk to mayor giuliani about that. coming right back ♪

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>> tonight our nation is in debt to the people of boston and the people of massachusetts. boston police and state police and local police across the commonwealth of massachusetts responded with professionalism and bravery over five long days. and tonight, because of their determined efforts, we've closed an important chapter in this tragedy. >> that was president obama last night at the white house after the manhunt came to an end. ed henry has been monitoring

events from 1600 pennsylvania avenue and joins us now with an update. >> good to see you. as mayor giuliani knows after a terrorist attack, you've got a balance moving ahead with the business of government and also trying to soothe the nation, not just the people in boston, but all around the country or wondering what will come of this terror investigation. the president doing a little bit of both today. he met behind closed doors in the situation room for about 90 minutes today with much of his national security team, including attorney general eric holder, the country director, john brennan, tom donnellan, both to get a handle on this specific terror investigation, but white house officials say he was trying to get a sense of the threat from all around the world, moving beyond just this one investigation. and the president in his weekly radio internet address this morning also talked about the resiliency not just of boston, but of the entire country. >> if anyone wants to know who we are, what america is, how we respond to evil and terror,

that's it. selflessly, compassionately, and unafraid. >> now, republicans like john mccain and lindsey graham today are hailing the decision to use the public safety exemption that you've been talking about to make sure that the suspect number 2 does not get his miranda rights right away but are going further by saying they want to see him officially designated as an enemy combatant. senator ayotte and king saying however, we have concerns that limiting this investigation to 48 hours and exclusively relying on the public safety exemption could be a national security mistake. it could severely limit our ability to gather information about future attacks from this suspect. officials here at the white house say they haven't made a final decision about exactly how they're going to move forward on this investigation. but all signals so far have been that they will not use that designation of an enemy guys. >> all right. thanks so much. we have mayor giuliani staying with us for a little bit.

if you could compare the 9-11 cooperation of the federal, state and local government to this, do you think we made any progress? >> i think it was about the same. in both cases it was done very, very well. plenty of examples where governments don't work together, but these are two examples of where the federal government worked lock step with the state and local government. in this case, it seemed it was seamless. in our case, president bush sent us joe alba from fema. he arrived at 1:00 o'clock, 2:00 o'clock. he sat down with governor pataki and i. governor pataki and i put our two governments together. we basically put our cabinets together for four straight months. we made all decisions together. he was our teammate. and he announced about 5:00 o'clock in the afternoon we're here to support you. you guys understand new york. you're running it. we'll follow your lead. >> you didn't have 9-11. you didn't have a suspect in custody that was injured in the hospital and this decision of whether or not to read miranda

rights or how you were going to proceed. how much influence do the senators or members of congress have on the department of justice or the white house in a decision like this? >> the initial decision, none. got made without consulting with them. now it's a matter of pressure. not very much pressure. the attorney general is going to make the decision he wants to make. there is another way the attorney general could question him endlessly without worrying about this 48 hour exception. and that is just not worry about whether or not he's going to use his statements. the only reason miranda exists is in order to use statements as evidence in court. he could just question him for the next two weeks if he wants to and just forego using it in court. >> speaking of the court, how will you pull off a trial with a jury pool that doesn't know this case? they'd have to move the trial to the moon and everybody has seen the photo of that guy dropping the bomb behind that kid. i want to ask you about this. every single person that's interviewed when it comes to a terrorist attack says they were normal, says that oh, they were

just nice guys. is this just part of the training or should we be moving next to abnormal weird people? [ laughter ] like me. >> welcome to "the five." >> i'm glad i have weirdoes next door. does that make me the normal person? do you get my point? is this part of the training is to be as unassuming -- >> i imagine it is, sure. if they were completely obvious, then they probable lea would be caught. part of it is to learn how to be deceptive. to learn how to fit in. like spies used to in the old days. >> if you were in boston, you would have been on the list. >> if you look at their facebook and youtube channels, there was a lot of expression accord radical islam, which is exactly what it is, even though a lot of people don't want to say radical islam is jihaddist. so i'm wondering, should we be looking at different ways to identify terrorism? it seems we've gotten very good in this country. but this was a soft attack on people, on human beings.

the chechen islamic radicalism is known for, schools, theaters. how should we be handling this now? it's different than past attacks? >> i remember when the london bombing took place, i was in london. i was half a block away from the first bomb in liverpool station. that was a big, big shock to the u.k. because they were -- u.k. citizens. they had a very clear profile of who they were worried about. they were worried about people who had just come into the u.k., all of a sudden they get this big surprise. they expanded their list of suspects. we're going to have to do the same thing. a lot of questions will come out of when the f.b.i. interviewed him, what did they find out? why didn't they put him on a watch list, if they didn't? why didn't they follow up and kind of take a look at what he was doing on the internet, which would have given them some indications? why they didn't, there may be a perfectly good explanation for it. >> who are these friends on facebook?

>> i went to his twitter account, i went back all 1100 tweet, he looked like any normal 18 or 19-year-old. there is nothing that stands out with this kid. mayor, i'm going to read president obama's words. we're going to close an important captainer in this tragedy. is it a tragedy or a terrorist attack? >> a terrorist attack. the president has a kind of crew femmistic way of dealing with these. he did say it at one point. this is not a tragedy. a tragedy is something awful that happens that we have no control overment katrina is a tragedy. sandy is a tragedy. natural disaster. a deliberate attack for a purpose, even if we don't know the complete reason for the purpose, this is an attack. this is like pearl harbor wasn't a tragedy. >> if you call it a tragedy -- >> september 11 wasn't a tragedy. it was an attack on the united states of america. this was an attack on boston and the united states of america.

>> if you call it a tragedy, it allows other people to generate sympathy for the suspects. >> sure. >> the president did that. but i'm saying that happens in the media. >> all right. we'll have to go, unfortunately. we enjoyed having you here. >> i enjoyed it very much. >> directly ahead, you'll hear from one of the family members of the accused killers. stay with us. pppp÷÷pp copd makes it hard to breathe...

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>> today the uncle of the two brothers suspected in monday's marathon bombing reacted to the capture of his younger nephew. here is ruslan tsarnaev. >> i'm happy that dzhokhar is alive. dzhokhar was pressured by his older brother. >> who were these young men? joining us now is wesley loury, a reporter with the boston globe. thank you for joining us.

>> of course. thanks for having me. >> how were they radicalized? how do we know that they went from being what people are saying normal teen-agers to radical islamic jihaddists? >> i think it's really important to look at the two different -- you get two different brothers. the older and younger brother. that's one of the things we're still trying to dig into as we talk to family members and friends is how did they go about becoming a little more fundamentallized. every account we have so far is that the older brother seems to have been the one who molded his younger brother and kind of brought him under his wing into this more kind of aggressive, angry beliefs. but again, we're still trying to figure it out. they were both relatively well adjusted. the younger brother more so than the older brother. both seemingly had good lives here in america. we're still trying to figure out exactly what it is, what triggered, especially in the older brother, what triggered this. >> it sounds like that will probably be the defense in court, that the older brother corrupted him.

greg gutfeld field has a question. >> i don't have a question 'cause i don't care about their motivations. i could give an f. as far as i'm concerned, their motivation is radical islamic belief. i don't have any more questions. >> jihad. >> sorry. >> wesley, dana perino has a question. >> i'll go ahead and ask a question. i do agree with my colleague on the left, which is actually on the right, greg. so one of the excuses is that they couldn't fit in. how is that going down in boston, they didn't fit in thing? >> i mean, in terms of the younger brother, no one is saying they couldn't fit in. everyone is saying he had tons of friends, he was very well liked, the captain of his high school wrestling team of the we talked to his friends and family member, people loved him. his older brother, he was quoted in 2004 profile saying that he didn't have any friends who were american. he didn't have a lot of friends here. that said, he also had success

here in america. he was a very successful amateur boxer. so people are saying it's an excuse, it might be, but our reporterring isn't finding that, especially about the younger brother. he had a lot of friends, seemed to be well adjusted. the people we talked to who knew them, especially the younger brother, are very surprised. >> we only have 45 seconds left. >> the f.b.i. investigated the older brother. they talked to him several years ago. why do you think he was not on a list of potential terrorists who might cause a problem that day in boston? >> i can't answer that directly. obviously we're reaching out to the f.b.i. and other law enforcement sourcing. i don't know that we can definitively say right now that he wasn't on a list or was not being monitored. this is still a very fluid situation that's developing. we're doing the best job we can reporting. i know other outlets are. i think it's really important to in some ways let this play out, and especially now that the younger brother is in custody. there is not an active threat

anymore. we don't have all the answers yet. here at the globe and other news outlets, we're going to try to get the answers. >> all right. thank you so much for joining us. >> of course. thanks for having me. >> thank you. up next on "the five," the latest on the victims, four are dead, over 170 injured and one police officer is fighting for his life. an update on them when we come back okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus.

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so we want to update you now on the only people that matter, the survivors of the boston terrorist attack, as well as the latest on the funeral plans for the four victims. eight-year-old martin richard, 29-year-old crystal campbell, 23-year-old woman and 26-year-old mit police officer sean collier. adam housley joins us from boston. has there been any updates on the survivors, how they're doing and perhaps is there any reaction to the capture of these

finds by those who suffered? >> we haven't heard much. the hospital keeps a lot of that information to themsel allow tho individually put out their own statements. we do know there are a number of survivors here that are doing better. and recovering as the days go on. taking into account, this is the same hospital where the suspect's brother was pronounced dead. and where doctors did everything they could to stabilize this suspect. and as they were working to stabilize him, people that he allegedly bombed and maimed on monday were also being treated. so quite an interesting scene here that continues. the security is significant. we've just been told also that the f.b.i. will put out a statement as part of that statement, it's not going to be incredibly detailed, but as part of the statement, they'll say suspect number 2 is in serious but stable condition, which is a sign that they're hoping for in a sense, they were trying to get information from him as soon

as possible, greg. >> how is the people that are suffering from the injuries doing? do we have any word on the injured? >> we do. again, there are a lot of them. depending on who you talk to, we do know that the little boy who was killed, his mother still has significant recovery process to go through. she had a very serious head injury. as you go down the list, again, they're individual, case by case basis. the hospitals won't tell us, for patient privacy reasons, exactly what people are dealing with. they'll say people are recovering, they're doing better. there have been no lives lost since monday. that's a good thing. and a lot of people are doing very well. we know the medical community here is a very strong medical community with very significant facilities all throughout this city. some of the best in the world. so it is encouraging to hear some of these people are doing better and coming to grips really with losing limbs and

that is something to take into account. i thought last night was poignant to understand that the doctor that saved so many people here on monday were doing the exact same thing to save this suspect accused of killing so many people and maiming so many here over the course of the last five days, guys. >> adam, bob beckel. do you know whether this investigative team -- or excuse me, the team from the f.b.i. that are up there to forget this guy has done that yet? >> we don't know. i'll tell think, bob, being around these stories for a long time, we saw two investigators come out this morning at 4:30 in the morning. we were here all night. they walked around the door behind me. they went over to their car and left. we tried talking to them and asked them questions about it. they, of course, wouldn't give us any information because that's protocol. we are in touch with our sources in the federal -- several federal agencies trying to get more information out. from what we can tell, there were some initial questions asked. is that an interrogation? it's really up to the terminology. has it really expanded since his

operations were done this morning? that's what we don't know yet, bob. but we know there were initial questions asked. got to believe when he was first taken into custody last night and on his way here to the hospital as well, bob. >> thanks, adam. >> all right. >> so i guess there is going to be some upcoming funerals. i don't know what the dates are. but it's going to be a somber next couple of weeks. >> i thought it was unbelievable that the one guy who had both of his legs lone off in the hospital was the one who, even though he was in a state of shock, said, i can identify these guys. what people can do when they're so injured is unbelievable. >> yes. jeffrey bowman. incredible. all right. after almost a week of hell, boston breathes a sigh of relief and crew ninth together. here is a crowd at fenway singing "sweet caroline" at the red sox game today. >> are you ready? ♪ sweet caroline ♪ good times never seemed to

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♪ ♪ ♪ . >> emotional moment shared by fans at the bruins-penguins hockey game, that is right part of a pregame video showed, powerful images from this week. eric, let me ask awe specific question. [ laughter ] why is it when we go to things like this, sporting events indicate whether things are good or bad? >> sports are patriotic people. the red sox, the bruins, in

fact, there were a bunch -- when it was announced they caught suspect number 2, there was a sporting thing going on in st. louis, or l.a., people erupted into cheers. applause, chants of usa. it's so patriotic. it brings people together. >> what are the chances you're going to see yankee fans sing "weight caroline." >> never again. >> sports unites citizens in america and increasingly so as other types of community events have dropped off. if you remember after 9-11, when president bush threw out pitch at the world series, that was a moment where a lot of people that lived through that time can go, that was when i sort of breathed a sigh of, okay, we are not sitting back. we are going forward. we're going to be able to be okay. >> let me ask greg, who is in a sort of thoughtful mood right at this moment. greg, i know you like talking sports. but i don't want to talk about sports.

you made a good point about this. is this now time to stop talking about these dudes and start talking about the victims? >> yes. as far as i'm concerned, i never want to see their ugly little faces again. the other thing is i get the celebration, but you really -- what are you celebrating for right now? this is a scary time. this can happen again. we were lucky that only -- i mean, it could have been way worse. and it could have happened over and over again. i mean, celebrate, it's good that we caught these creeps, but man, it's going to happen -- >> that's a good point. >> yeah. it's a good message, i agree with greg, to celebrate, but also celebration without recognizing that we're still at war is not going to do anything. >> exactly. >> what is the message you want to send? of course you're sending them a message, we're strong, resilient. but the stronger message is, we understand we're in a war with radical islam and we're not going to be defeated. that needs to be the message. i will say this, one of the brothers, he did want to box for the usa. i would like to see him get in the ring with some of those bostonnians the other night.

>> maybe a lot of that celebration is thanking the first responders. >> that's true. >> all right. one more thing. yes, we got it back. it's up next uit smoking with ch. when the doctor told me that i could smoke for the firsweek... i'm like...yeah, ok... little did i know that one week later i wasn't smoking. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostilityagitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. tell your doctor if you have a history of heart or blood vesl problems, or if you develop new or worse symptoms. get medical help right away if you have symptoms of heart attack stroke. use caution when driving or operating machinery.

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>> it's time for a special one more thing. greg, you're kirking it off. >> odd timing, robert redford's movie, "the company you keep" is opening which portrays whether underground terrorists, sympathetically, it makes you wond builder 30, 40 years from

now, liberal director will make a movie portraying these brothers as misguided and sympathetic. in that mind, i say in honor of the victims, don't go to this movie. >> you know someone is writing that script. >> do not go. >> you're up. >> i was thinking about i mentioned this once before. it occurs to me how difficult it must have been for parents to describe to young children all across the country why this happened. and how these things happen. i remember doing that with my little kids during 9-11 who are now young adults and i think about young adults today who went through 9-11 as sort of the beginning of their life here in the united states and kids don't feel safe anymore in their own country. so i applaud the parents who tried. i didn't do a very good job of it and i wish the kids who are the children of 9-11 that they get on with their lives. it is a safe place. >> good thoughts. dana? >> another story that caught everybody's attention this week and didn't get enough news

coverage, but i want to bring it up, in west, texas, near waco, there was a fertilizer plant explosion. 14 people were killed, 200 injured. many stories of heroism, residents are allowed to go back to their homes, some are. we want to let them know they're in our thoughts and prayers as well. i also wanted to show think picture. during some pet rescue efforts today, people found this photograph here. can you see? there is a dove right there in the middle of it. maybe a little bit of a hopeful sign there in west, texas. >> sure. i'm sure we'll get to some of that. andrea? >> i just want to say i think this whole thing should be a wake-up call for the nation. as we're poised to quickly pass an immigration bill, a gun control debate, we should find out and look into our immigration system, who is coming in, coming out and seal the border. i bet a lot of people who had guns when there was a criminal on the loose. but the mindset of many people is to not offend radical islam insist jihaddists or even

acknowledge the threat they pose. so i just hope this is a wake-up call for everybody. you won't refer to them as eastern europeans. it doesn't matter if they're eastern european, pakinstani, they're radical islamic jihaddist and before one american dies again, it's time for the political correctness to die. we are at war and they will never stop. we've been at war for hundreds of years with this same enemy. >> if i had said that, everybody would have interrupted me. go ahead. >> bob, you usually do right at the end of the show. i think this is important. for me to get this. i wrote this on monday after the marathon bombing. boss continue is one tough town. america is one tough country. we're americans and these cowardly acts will not define us. terrorists will not make us run scared. so let's interrogate terrorists and the other and get back to being americans. let's run our marathons, watch our ball games, and enjoy our freedoms. after all, this is america. we don't retreat.

we reload. and by the way, a huge, huge hats off to all the first responders who risked their lives in the line of duty. we have a couple -- >> that was very good. >> last thoughts? >> i thought that was very well written. >> and time to call it terror, huh? >> it is. if you see something, say something, even on social someone says they want to bomb that, should trigger a red flag. >> we'll leave it there. that's it for us. we'd like to leave you with this very powerful moment at red sox game this afternoon at fenway. good night, everybody. ♪ ♪ what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming ♪

♪ whose broad stripes and bright stars ♪ ♪ through the perilous fight ♪ o'er the ramparts we watched ♪ were so gallantly streaming ♪ and the rockets red glare ♪ the bombs bursting in air ♪ gave proof through the night that our flag was still there ♪ ♪ o say does that star spangled banner yet wave ♪ ♪ o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave ♪

[ cheers and applause ] >> the money is over. now the search for answers, the legal process and the second guessing begins. this is "special report". >> good evening. i'm bret baier. the remaining living suspect in monday's boston marathon bombings is in the hospital tonight in serious condition under extraordinary security. tonight we will bring you the complete story of the search and capture and what lies ahead for 19-year-old dzhokhar tsarnaev. his 26-year-old brother died in a shootout with police. we begin in boston and senior correspondent eric shaun. good evening.

>> good evening. tonight governor patrick dzhokhar tsarnaev may be in serious condition in downtown boston, but says his condition is stable and not yet able to communicate and he could potentially be charged from the federal government with terrorism-related charges and from the commonwealth of massachusetts, state charges of murder. he's lucky to be alive. when the terror suspect was brought in last night, he was clinging to life. after losing a lot of blood, apparently shot during the carjacking chase thursday night. he was bleeding and weak. federal authorities say a special high value suspect team experienced with accused terrorists, is expected to eventually question him. he was not given his miranda rights, say officials, under a rarely used exception that protects police and the public from immediate danger. the federal public defender's office in boss continue says it has agreed to represent him, saying there are serious issues regarding interrogation. president obama sent a signal of the administration's intentions

last night. >> it's important that we do this right. that's why we have investigations. that's why we relentlessly gather the facts. that's why we have courts. >> meanwhile, his family is condemning and praising the brothers. his mother, in russia, claims they were set up and controlled by the f.b.i. >> i am really sure, like 100% sure that this is a set-up. my two sons are really innocent and i know that my -- neither of them never, never have talked about whatever they're saying about now. >> their uncle in maryland blamed religious extremism. >> religious extremism, whoever was able to brainwash them, a friend of mine, he started being his father. he called me confused. his uncle who always been there.

i think -- >> police say after an exchange of gun fire, dzhokhar was captured hiding under a tarp in a boat. thermal images helped police locate the suspect. [ cheers and applause ] the arrest sparked spontaneous appreciation on the streets. >> usa! >> an emotional ceremony of relief and thanks as red sox baseball returned toughenway park. -- to fenway park. ironically, if officials had not lifted that shelter in place, then dzhokhar may be lying in the boat but dead. after it was lifted, the homeowner decided to check things out in his backyard and saw his tarp was cut and discovered dzhokhar. that happened 45 minutes after that shelter order was lifted. >> eric shaun. thank you. now a look at the investigation into the possible tie to

jihaddist. the hunt for the terrorist connection. where it stands tonight. here is catherine herridge. >> fox news is told investigators are exploring links between the older brother, tamerlan tsarnaev, and an extremeist group based on the older brother's travel to russia in the first half of 2012 which included chechnya and the contents of his youtube channel. videos deleted from his youtube terrorist play list included links to an extremist group, which is under the umbrella of the group. investigators are look for potential ties, including e-mail traffic, posting of web videos supporting the islamist objective, direct person to person contact and training. known for suicide bombings and hostage taking, the group was designated a terrorist entity in 2011 by the u.n. al-qaeda and taliban sanctions committee and the u.s. state department. the group is seen as a fringe

player in the global terrorism movement, the state department chief said, quote, the designation of the group is in response to the threats posed to the united states and russia. the attacks perpetrated by the group illustrate the global nature of the terrorist problem we face today. that same year the russian government asked the f.b.i. to investigate the older brother, quote, based on information that he was a follower of radical islam and a strong believer. and that he had changed drastically since 2010 as he prepared to leave the united states to join unspecified underground groups. in a statement, the f.b.i. said it found no evidence of terrorist activity. that revelation, according to a member of the house intelligence committee, is causing unease at the bureau. >> there are a lot of palpitations going on within the f.b.i. about what did they see when they looked at this? what, if anything, did they miss? that will be heavily scrutinized. >> a former head of counterterrorism said the bar is high for federal investigators for solid evidence.

identifying with an extremist group's ideas is not enough. >> we have hundreds of people, if not thousands of people in this country, who we have identified as having some sort of sympathy to foreign terrorist organizations. and in the nature of this democracy, there is only so much you can do. >> fox news is told the f.b.i. is working through a laundry list of questions, which include a special focus on the bombs, former member of the f.b.i.'s joint terrorism task force told fox news that the level of proficiency with the explosives requires consistent training. >> there are a lot of things we don't know yet. we don't know where tamerlan traveled specifically when he was overseas yet. we don't know a lot. >> we don't know who he met with because in this radicalization process, there is usually a pivotal figure who is the one who lays out the philosophy and propels that person onward to violence. that really is a key marker.

>> okay. thank you. so do you think dzhokhar tsarnaev, the f.b.i. will learn much from him? let me know on twitter. you can follow me at bret baier. he could be charged as soon as tonight. f.b.i. agents in chicago have arrested an aurora, illinois teen-ager for planning to join an al-qaeda affiliated group in syria. the f.b.i. says the 18-year-old was detained last night as he tried to board a flight from o'hare to turkey. he is charged with attempting to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization. this is a big weekend for rebels in syria and for the u.s. chief national correspondent jim angle tells us money, power and influence are on the line. >> experienced with terrorists here at home, the u.s. is trying to avoid encouraging them overseas, as secretary of state john kerry arrived in turkey where he plans to announce an increase in not only aid to the syrian rebels of up to

$10 million. as he empty with syrian opposition leader, the memories of boston were still fresh on his mind. and he spread his sorrow. before offering more aid to syrian rebel, the u.s. wants assurances that any new government would be democratic and inclusive. in other words, not dominated by radical islamists as he explained to congress this week. >> obviously there are dangers of extremists who are finding some funding and engaged in the battle and we want to try to separate them, if that is possible. >> u.s. aid would include military items such as body armor, communications equipment, and night vision goggles. but not weapons or ammunition. syrian opposition groups were there to demand more help from the international community. they argue the assad regime has used chemical weapons against them that the international community should disable such weapons, establish a no fly zone and more. >> the establishment of an international fund where the friends of syria can put money into that fund to support the

coalition and different organization. >> the argument now among the so-called friends of syria is whether to provide actual weapons. the german foreign minister said today he's skeptical about supplying arms for fear they could fall into the hands of extremists. british officials expressed caution as well. some nations have been providing weapons and the rebels have been gaining ground on the assad government in fierce fighting. syria told lawmakers, assad cannot horrible treatment of the syrian people at the hands of their own government. the chairman of the joint chiefs this week told the senate he favors supplying weapons to the rebels if we could get them to the right people. but with radical islamic groups,

that wouldn't be easy. bret? >> thank you. iraqis braved the fear of violence to vote in the first election since the withdrawal of u.s. troops. candidates vied for seats or provincial councils. there were reports of scattered violence, but no fatalities today. back here at homes the death toll has been set at 14 now in wednesday's explosion at a fertilizer plant in texas. more than 200 people were injured and an entire town rocked to its core. dominic has the latest. good evening. >> good evening. the authorities here in west in central texas declaring the disaster site now safe after rumors swept across the town that a second explosion was imminent caused by leaks coming from gas tanks that were affected by the blast on wednesday and those leaks had started small fires.

the authorities saying that is under control. the town was worried, fearing more people would be hurt. and we now have photos and names of about a dozen of those 14 bodies that have been recovered from the site. most were emergency workers. residents here are very frustrated that the authorities have been communicating about the dead here and also the residents now turning their anger not just to the authorities, but also to those that operated the plant with regard to safety. take a listen. >> there should have been some type of siren system. >> and only a handful of residents have been allowed back so far. those whose homes were on the perimeter, those were destroyed right by the epicenter of the site. could be as many as two weeks before they're allowed back. we saw one search and rescue

team pull heavy equipment out. crew workers would not say the horrors they've seen in the recovery of the bodies. back to you. >> thank you. we'll continue to follow that recovery. the main street media was blaming right after the boston bombing. the grapevine has been missing for a while. it's back. and up next, the prosecution rests, but not easily in the trial of the philadelphia abortion doctor

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that work the way you wish they would. like a front-end loader you can detach from your seat? or a mower deck you just drive over and cut through knee-deep grass no problem? yep. we thought the same thing you did. that's why we build them this way. that's how we run. nothing runs like a deere. visit your dealer or johndeere.com/howwerun to see the new signature series and 1 family tractors. >> bret: the attorney for the man accused of sending tainted letters to a republican senator and president obama says the government has produced little evidence against her client. paul kevin curtis of mississippi appeared in court friday. he denies he sent the letters containing the poison ricin. scientists say the bird flu that killed 17 people in china circulated widely under the

radar and has the ability to mutate repeatedly. a powerful earthquake struck the steep hills of southwestern china today. at least 156 people are believed dead and more than 5500 injured. it's the same region that was hit by an even more destructive quake in 2008. back here in the u.s., philadelphia, the defense is set to begin its case monday in the murder trial of abortion doctor kermit gosnell. prosecution rested thursday after one last dose of the graphic testimony that has characterized proceeding. molly henneberg has our story which you may find disturbing. >> medical assistant, the 36th and final prosecution witness in the murder trial of dr. kermit gosnell told the jury what it has heard from multiple witnesses in this case, that babies who survived abortions were killed. cross says she saw one baby born into a toilet during an abortion, quote, swimming a bit, trying to move its arms and legs

to get out. that baby, she said, then had its spine cut. gosnell, who ran an abortion clinic in west philadelphia, is charged with first-degree murder of seven babies and third degree murder in the drug overdose death of a patient. prosecutors say he trained employees to sever the baby's spinal cords with scissors. cross testified she saw one baby breathing after an abortion. quote, i saw the baby's chest caving in and out. linda pulled the baby's hand and the baby pulled its hand back. talking there about linda wells, who pled guilty to third degree murder charges in this case. cross then said, quote, linda snapped the baby's neck as well. she cut it with scissors. philadelphia attorney heather hanson, in the courtroom as an observer, says the prosecution death penalty case hinges on one thing, that these babies were, in fact, born alive. >> it is absolutely positively key, molly, because if they were not born alive, then they were not killed and therefore, it's

not first degree murder. >> rather, a legal abortion of the although the prosecution also alleges that gosnell was aborting babies over the 24 week limit in pennsylvania. gosnell's attorney will start his defense next week and hanson says mcmahon must believe he has a winnable case because he and gosnell reportedly did not take a plea deal from the prosecution earlier this year. mcmahon has said the babies were dead when they were delivered and while they may have exhibited some postmortem movements, mcmahon argues they could not have survived the drugs administered to the mothers to cause an abortion. in washington, molly henneberg, fox news. >> bret: we'll continue to follow that case. still ahead, the boston bombings and a number of different items. first we'll talk about terrorism, legal rights and more with senator lindsey graham.

>> bret: we're going to spend a few minutes talking about the aftermath of the boston marathon bombings, the manhunt and what happens next. senator lindsey graham is here to talk about some of the ramifications that the latest act of terror on american soil. he joins us by phone. good evening, senator. >> thanks for having me. appreciate it. >> bret: where do we stand now? >> i think the plot thickens. i talked to the f.b.i. director. they're trying to put the puzzle together, but we're at a critical stage in the investigation. my goal is two fold. this suspect will go to federal court as an american citizen, he's not eligible for military commissioned trial. i wrote the military commission act. american civilians were excluded. he'll go to federal court one day. what i'm worried about, what most americans are worried about, we want to talk to him

from an intelligence point of view. what does he know about terrorist organizations within the country, outside the country? does he know anything about future plots? does he have associations with other potential terrorists? that is a intelligence gathering activity. that evidence won't be used against him in court. it will be used to protect us. so i'm hoping the obama administration will look at him as a potential enemy combatant, allow the intelligence community access to him without a lawyer, find out what he knows about terrorist organizations that may be coming our way. that, to me, is the primary goal in the coming weeks here. >> bret: i'm going to follow up on that. he was not given his miranda rights in the public safety exception. i want to talk more about that, but i want to follow up on the plot thickens, what you started with. you said you talked to the f.b.i. director. do you believe, knowing what you know, that there are more people involved? >> i think it is too early to make that decision, but the more

we know about these two guys, the more it looks like they're moving parts here. but the reason i'm so insistent that we have time, if you read him his miranda rights, the public safety exception is a exception that's really not a terrorist doctrine. as the plot things, you might could hold him without miranda worns for two or three days, maybe four. under the law of war, when you interrogate an enemy combatant about the potential military threats or national security threats, there is no clock. so what i want to do is make sure we use the legal system because if the f.b.i. and c.i.a. and others put together the puzzle about who these guys were and where they went, i want them to have continued access to gather intelligence. it may be a month down the road when we find out something. so i want us to be allowed to go

interview him for intelligence gathering purposes, as long as the investigation goes on without a lawyer present and the way do you that is you declare him a potential enemy combatant. he will have a day in federal court before a judge to see if the government can hold him under that theory. there will be a habeas hearing, whether or not the government can hold him as an enemy combatant, but that comes down the road, too. so the way you find out about what this guy may have done and who he knows is you investigate the case trying to pursue intelligence gathering. i'm not worried about convicting him in court. even i could convict this guy. i am worried about gathering intelligence. >> bret: the where they went is important piece of this puzzle, according to intelligence officials and we know that tamer ran traveled overseas at least went from jfk airport to moscow. we don't know exactly where he went once he was over there for six months. any more on that?

>> well, we're beginning to put that piece of the puzzle together, but the one thing i can promise you -- >> bret: what about that. >> well, yes. there is some leads developing. the one thing i can promise you, we're not going to know everything in four days. and it would be a shame and quite frankly, unconscionable for our nation to deny our intelligence community, the f.b.i., c.i.a. and others access to this terror suspect to find out where they went and who they know and about future plots. that's why i've been urging the obama administration to hold him as a potential enemy combatant so we can continue this dialogue apart from the criminal case. >> bret: okay. let me just play devil's advocate and say he is an american citizen. he became one he september 11, 2012. dzhokhar, some with say, should be afforded the rights of american citizens, should be given those rights.

let's say he's not the guy and let's say he didn't place the bag. let's say, you know, of course, there is a lot of evidence that police and the f.b.i. are saying and they had him in that boat and we've all saw it live on tv. let's say he's not the guy. >> okay. >> bret: shouldn't he be given the miranda rights? >> he should be given miranda rights no matter what because if you're going to prosecute -- if you interview him to try to find out if he's guilty, he should get miranda rights. every person should if you're going to try to interview them to gain information to convict them in court. he's not entitled to miranda rights if he's a terrorist who is associated himself with enemies of the nation. american citizens have sided with the enemy in a lot of wars. american citizens who helped the germans saboteurs who landed in long island. they were held as enemy combatants, tried by military

commission and executed. you have an american citizen captured in afghanistan that was held as an enemy combatant. america is at war and what i'm trying to figure out is this guy part of the enemy forces? did he train with the enemy? did he get help with the enemy? does he know anything about the enemy? no american citizen is immune from having the law of wore applied to them if they collaborate with the enemy. he was found in a boat, shot up and he had a gun and he was shooting at the police who were trying to arrest him. his brother has got a youtube video declaring jihad on us all. there is ample evidence to suggest he may, in fact, be more than just a common criminal and i want the f.b.i. and the c.i.a. to have time to run down where he went and what he did and interview him to protect the rest of us in case he knows something about a future attack or an organization in our own backyard. that's been the law. i've been a military lawyer for 30 years.

you can hold an american citizen who is collaborating with the enemy to gather intelligence and i want to find out if he was, in fact, involved with al-qaeda or the terrorist groups. clearly he is a prime candidate for that designation. >> bret: senator graham, thank you very much for your time. we'd love to have you back when you find out more. >> okay. thank you. >> bret: we'll talk about a convenient target for the media. after the boston bombings, and who would guess that some might be offended of a ren actment of the hiroshima atomic bomb? that's next.

>> bret: political grapevine. in the hours following the boston marathon bombing, we didn't know who was behind the terrorist act that left three dead and dozens injured. and really our nation on edge. that did not stop many from speculating and one of the favorite theories being that the far right was to blame. talking about the type of explosives used, cnn analyst herized, if it was hydrogen peroxide, that's a signature of al-qaeda. if it was more conventional explosives, that might be some other kind of right wing extremist. msnbc's chris matthews said normally domestic terrorists, people tend to be on the far right. well, that's not a good category. just extremists, let's call them that. new york claims columnist tweeted, quote, explosion is a reminder that atf needs a

director. shame on senate republicans for blocking appointment. he later deleted that tweet, calling it a low blow. change of plans for the dayton air show, organizers have come to the conclusion that a reenactment of the bombing of hiroshima is a bad idea. 200 people signed a petition objecting to the, quote, glam orization of destruction, simulating the atomic blast that killed 140,000 people. finally, political correctness could bring an end to the master bedroom? the washington business journal finds six of ten dc area construction companies no longer use that term. many go with owner's suite or owner's bedroom. why? construction companies say historically master associates n as an allusion to a slave-owner relationship. plus they say the other names sound fancier. president obama is promising

to look for answers in the wake of monday's bombings in boston. ed henry has more. >> president obama convened his national security team on saturday for 90 minutes, just hours after he acknowledged that while there is great relief in boston, the pressure on his administration to find answers is only heating up. >> there are still many unanswered questions. among them, why did young men who grew up and studied here as part of our communities and our country resort to such violence? >> beyond the criminal investigation, though, is the question of what impact the terror case may have on one of the president's key legacy items. >> given the events of this week, it's important for us to understand the gaffes and loopholes in our immigration system. >> on friday, hours before we learned dzhokhar tsarnaev became a u.s. citizen last year, charles grassley was urging a go

slow approach on comprehensive immigration reform to make sure people who may be a threat here at home don't continue to slip through the cracks. >> how can individuals evade authority and plan such attacks on our soil? how can we beef up security checks on people who wish to enter the united states? >> bret: two key republican members of the gang of eight, senators john mccain and lindsey graham, quickly fired back the terror case argues just the opposite. the lawmakers declaring, quote, the status quo is unacceptable. we have 11 million people living in the shadows, which leaves this nation vulnerable to a myriad of threats. that is all the more reason why comprehensive immigration reform is so essential. democrat chuck schumer signaled this may give the white house a chance to push harder for what has quickly become one of the president's top second term goals. >> in general, we're a safer country when law enforcement knows who is here, has their fingerprints, photos, et cetera, has conducted background checks and no longer needs to look at

needles through hay stacks. >> bret: white house officials do not want to weigh in on how this terror case may affect the immigration reform debate. but the clock is ticking. the president has vowed to get all this wrapped up by the end of the summer. >> bret: ed henry live on the north lawn, thanks. with all the turmoil in boston this week and elsewhere, you may have missed an unpleasant week on wall street. stocks had their biggest fall since november. largely due to poor corporate earnings in finance and technology. the dow and s & p 500 both lost a little more than 2%. nasdaq was closer to 3. the boy scouts of america is proposing to lift its ban on gay youth members, but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders. the scouts will submit this proposal to about 1400 voting members of its national council next month. >> what a week it's been. we'll talk about boston from fears to cheers when the fox all stars join me after the break.

>> we have a person in the boat who is trying to poke a hole through the boat. live party in the boat confirmed. >> shots fired. >> multiple shots fired here. okay? everyone hold their fire. hold their fire! >> negotiation team went in, my understanding, i wasn't there. i was at the command post. but eventually he stood up, anticipated the commands. we were concerned he might have a device on his chest. he lifted his shirt to show he didn't and the people that were on scene were able to take him into custody and get him to a hospital. >> bret: police chief, that will be on geraldo tonight. what an amazing event. the take down of the remaining suspect, dzhokhar tsarnaev in boston in watertown specifically

last night. let's bring in steve hayes, charles lane, opinion writer for the "washington post," and columnist charles krauthammer. steve, let's start there and just this week. >> yeah, pretty incredible. and the events of last night, i think, brought it to an appropriate culmination. to look at the coordination between federal and local law enforcement officials, to look at the use of technology, with the heat sensing, understand that he was in the boat. i think it was an incredible job by law enforcement in rounding him up and it's a good thing they did their job as well as they did. >> bret: chuck? >> i don't think since september 11 itself has the country gone through such a collective drama, so transfixed us on television and everything else and yet, we do see what a distance we've traveled since then. both in terms of our concept of terrorism and the kinds of threats that we faced, but also steve says, in the capability we have as a country to use against

it and so in that case, i guess you could say it's classic good news, bad news story and the good news last night was very good. >> bret: i was struck how boston, this shut down that city to get two guys and they were dangerous and they had bombs and they had guns. they shut down boston for 24 hours. >> in some ways you can say that it allows a terrorist objective to be achieved, which is the disruption. you shut down an american city, you achieved something. in the end, they were defeated and it won't change our lives in the future. but it was -- i don't think that's ever happened before in any other event. i saw the sport section today, they had a game in chicago postponed rain and they had the one in boston postponed, local manhunt. that i had never, ever seen in the sports section.

>> bret: the mother of the tsarnaev came out and spoke about her sons and specifically about the older, tamerlan, who died. >> my son, tamer ran, really -- tamer ran, got involved in the religion, you know, like religious politics, five years ago. he was controlled by f.b.i., like for five years. they knew what my son was doing. they knew what actions and what the sites on internet he was going. they used to come and talk to me. how could this happen? how could they, they were controlling every step of him. and they're telling today that this is a terrorist act. never, ever. >> bret: she said the f.b.i. controlled him for five -- three to five years. the f.b.i. told us when we asked early in the week whether they had anything on either of these men that they didn't before the

take down last night. they put out a statement, two years ago and after the mother's interview, i should point out. two years ago -- this isn't the official statement. two years ago, an unnamed foreign government asked the f.b.i. to check on the older tsarnaev brother because they had concerns about possible extremist ties. the f.b.i. scrubbed him and talked to him. we did not find anything, the official said. the f.b.i. reported back to the foreign government that it found nothing but told the foreign government to follow up if they got more info or had any more concerns. the foreign government never followed up in any way, shape or form, so the f.b.i. closed the case. an official statement came out later. steve, pretty amazing. >> it is pretty amazing. one thing that needs to be explored first is why they initially denied they had any information and only acknowledged it after the mother's super view. >> it wasn't just us. >> a number of news outlets.

they denied they had any information and then the mother said that. after the fact -- i'm very interested in learning what the russians gave us, this foreign government we all understand now is russia. what the russians gave us initially. what did they use to substantiate their claims that he had been increasingly radicalized and they were worried he was going to be involved in these unidentified groups? presumably the russians came to us with some information. how did they get the information? what was it exactly? what was it that animated their concerns? and i think if we learn the nature of that information, we'll have a much better idea if the russians were coming to us with real information that we could do something with, or if this was just a power move by the russian government who had been concerned with the separatist groups and the jihaddists in chechnya for a long time. did the russians come to us with this dined of information on a lot of different people? was it one of dozens? i think we know that and the

sooner we know that, we'll be able to evaluate how serious the claims were. >> bret: the official statement said he was a follower of readycal islam and a strong believer. he was prepared to u.s. to travel to the country's region, russia, to join underground groups, the official f.b.i. statement. >> i think the mother outlined the classic c.i.a. defense, or now the f.b.i. defense that government agency set me in motion, provoked me, made me or knew about things that i was going to do and you can be sure the defense lawyers are going to pursue that angle. >> it's as bizarre as the 9-11 truth conspiracies. obviously it's the distress of a mother who can't believe this happened and the theory to explain it. i think what's interesting is that the russians came with information even before he traveled overseas. we know he was in chechnya. we know he was in dagestan. we heard from senator graham there are leads he might have been elsewhere.

this is very important that we understand where he was, who he saw and there is ohm one way we're going to get information, the brother. >> bret: that's a big deal. by the way, boston police commissioner ed davis will be live tomorrow on fox news sunday. we're going to take a quick break. we'll be right back and talk about legal steps.

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>> i think the administration is taking the right approach and that is at this time they are using the public safety exception under miranda to find out are there other bombs out there? are there other co-conspirators? are our troops at risk somewhere else around the -- if we're talk being a u.s. citizen here on u.s. soil, the heavy perhaps presumption ought to be they're treated as a suspect in a case

in federal criminal court. >> i'm hoping the obama administration will look at him as a potential enemy combatant, allow the intelligence community access to him without a lawyer, find out what he knows about terrorist organizations that may be coming our way. >> bret: dzhokhar tsarnaev will likely be charged possibly as soon as tonight. we're back with the panel. charles? >> the senator is obviously right. yesterday before this kid was captured, as he said, a whole town was shut down. why? people were afraid there could be other attacks. everybody was in danger. it was a safety measure. well, now he's captured, but he's not speaking yet. he's obviously hurt. so are we going to continue our ignorance? we give him the miranda rights and remain in a situation as we were for three days before of not knowing. are there associates? are there bombs? traps anywhere else?

is there anything out there? of course we h of that. the idea -- i mean, i would, of course, use the public safety exception, but that only gives you a couple of days. we ought to have a procedure, congress ought to look at this -- designating how the -- have the president do it if he wants and the courts review somebody -- enemy combatant so you can have uninterrupted interrogation. the court could have a look at it and review it every week or two. but that's the only way to get information and the safety of the country hinges on that. >> bret: chuck, senator graham says when pressed, 30 days, there would be an end to it. not an eternity. others say he's an american citizen and has to be charged. >> i don't care kind of what you call it, enemy combatant or national security, suspect or whatever. we need a category. we need a legislative category that's under control, but gives intelligence access to folks for some period. unfortunately, because of partisan deadlock and

disagreements and stuff like that, we haven't got that legislation. if nothing else comes out of this case, let's hope it's a new law on that. >> yeah, make it unanimous. i think we absolutely need that exception. i'm happy that the obama administration is at least using the public safety exception, which they did not use in the case of the christmas day bomber. they tweaked the law. they're using it. i think it's a positive sign that they're using it. but nothing matters more right now than gathering intelligence. we need to know a, immediately if there are other devices, but b, what does he know, if anything, about the contacts that his brother may have had, that he may have had with outside groups, if any? >> bret: do they mirandaize him? >> i would imagine soon. >> yeah. i don't think it's that soon because of the expansesive interpretation of the justice department has put on this. could be more than a couple days. but it will end up being tested in court if it produces information they convict him on. >> if it's not indefinite, it's a mistake. it will probably end up being

under this administration, a week or two at most. >> bret: that's it for the panel. stay tuned for a week boston will never forget.

>> every one of haas has been touched by this attack on the

city. every one of us stands with you. >> they are identified as suspect 1 and suspect 2. we consider them to be armed and extremely dangerous. >> people have got to be vigilant. this is a dangerous person who we believe has killed people. >> we are one city. >> he's in custody. subject in custody. >> extraordinary collaboration more to the point, people, professionals who brought their a game.